OpenXTalk Forums

Youtube.
You know that place where Livecode maxed out at 613K views on an 14 year old video.
Down to 10K views for a 2 year old video.
Down to 382 views a month ago.

The person I spoke to got 22K views in the last 24 hours. 220K views on a video a month ago.

That's brilliant if it does indeed attract extra views. (I fully expect this site to crash, the dropbox account to be maxxed out)... Haha, but a bit inevitable without "proper" hosting.

I think if we can relay the request, that any youtube reviewer use the mega link for a download (I don't think this has a restriction of number of downloads).
I also think it would be good to get a 1.02 'out there' from my point of view, just so a reviewer doesn't hit the message box & save as errors that myself & Richmond have recently found.
(I don't want a reviewer to have update issues either, potentially).

Not sure if I'll get a chance to do that this weekend or not... (upload speeds are slow for me - 1MB/sec - so uploading a full new build for all 3 platforms takes hours!), so will have to see.

tperry2x wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:16 am That's brilliant if it does indeed attract extra views. (I fully expect this site to crash...

Hmmm, did it do exactly that earlier?

Just catching up a bit here,
I have the utmost respect for what the FPC (Free Pascal Compiler) community has accomplished (Pascal is a bit like xTalk's older sibling. I'm still not a huge fan of Pascal, but it's certainly more human friendly than 'C' is).
That's exactly the type of ecosystem I'd love to see for xTalk.
Indeed FPC Lazarus community have 3D libraries (and lots more), which I believe we might actually be able to use some of as well, since I believe they're interfaced like C libraries we could build our own wrappers. They also have cross compiling to 'C' IIRC (if memory serves, this was also used by some BASIC to do BASIC->C->Compiled Binary). They've got their runtime 'engine' to running Nintendo Wii and other strange 'platforms'.

Java isn't everywhere anymore, but Android is built on Java (and Linux), an JavaVM is a bit like a cross-platform application engine, and there's free open source JavaVMs. That is why OpenXION was so appealing to me, I believe that is very liberally licensed, like MIT or LGPL (can't recall exactly), but there are also one or two other repos of HyperClone that have GUI and also run on Java.

I'm also interested in StackSmith (Uli Kusterer) if compiled as cross-platform, as a potential alternative xTalk interpreter engine. StackSmith UI uses Apple's ObjC but the Hammer xTalk engine underneath is built with C++ and is platform agnostic, and could be wire up to some other UI Widget kit like GTK or whatever.

Lastly I think it's a good idea to have ways (multiple) to piggy back our xTalk and stack UIs ontop of Javascript/Web engine(s).

I've been open to alternatives engines since the start of OXT. Probably since Claris took over HC that I've thought it would be great for xTalk to be truly set free from commercial interests (the way FPC is free from Borland). Upon discovering it, I had hoped that the LC Community was leading to exactly that, but it seems some of it was just for show.

The thing is, currently I don't think there's as much substance in any of those existing alternatives xTalk engines (although we could work to change that). I want to be able to still use Array syntax and some of the other later syntax additions to xTalk.

@tPerry2x
No, I think it was just Linux? ( It was AhHa Mark W.). I wonder if Trevor DeVore could furnish the Windows version Pre-Builts to us? He's the reason the Windows Build Documentation got update (around 2018).
What you may recall me mentioning may have been that community member ShaoSean (IIRC) reported being able to build the v8 source for ARM, but he never posted the build anywhere.

xAction wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:40 am Youtube.
You know that place where Livecode maxed out at 613K views on an 14 year old video.
Down to 10K views for a 2 year old video.
Down to 382 views a month ago.

The person I spoke to got 22K views in the last 24 hours. 220K views on a video a month ago.

I'm familiar with YouTube. There are many creator accounts there. I was asking which one is where we can see the video that talks about LC and OXT.

Hasn't happened yet. He was busy last week at Game Developers Conference. When/if it happens I'll be sure to say "It Happened!" and post a link. Fingers crossed.

If the "quiet route" isn't forthcoming should we approach Kevin Miller again?

"OpenXTalk.org would accept the missing files in any manner convenient, such as from the Github repository, sharable files from GoogleDrive or DropBox, or a temporary expiring password to the files' directory. These are the missing files for compiling the LCC 9.6.3 Engine: ..."

I suggest including the missing Linux files to avoid confusion. Open to additions or subtractions to improve. I'd submit it to Heather if no objections. I just don't know, mostly pessimistic on any LC Ltd help.

If no favorable response we could try to attract the attention of someone else who has access, or contact the GPL3 people that Richmond suggested.

[this post edited, and my post above - tperry]

Yes, I'd say that pretty much sums it up.

I'm ready to email to Kevin Miller, still pessimistic. I've been re-reading the two LC responses. They seem adamant everything needed to recreate the prebuilt binaries is in Github. It would be nice if they let us have theirs, but I don't think that's going to happen. Gnu.org has no enforcement power, particularly against a company that is no longer open source. The front-door is closed. That leaves the back-door or stumble through the prebuild scripts in Github.

LC Responses To Date:
2/29/24
I've asked about this and here is the information I have for you:
The binaries we hosted were just a cache to speed up builds. All scripts needed to build the prebuilt binaries are present in the repository in the prebuilt folder - prebuilt/build-libraries.sh. The prebuilt/build-libraries.sh script in the repository is used to build the prebuilt libraries for mac,linux,android,ios and emscripten. On Windows the folder url is prebuilt/build-libs.bat.
All source related to the libraries built with those scripts is either downloaded as part of the script - e.g. openssl for the specified version in the 'prebuilt/versions' folder; or resides in the thirdparty repo - thirdparty folder. There are no modifications which aren't in the repositories somewhere.
--
3/6/24
At this point, the problem is yours to solve. We have provided all the source under GPL, what you do with it is down to you. In this case you will need to either build libraries yourselves, upload them to a server you control and change the relevant urls in the scripts - or tweak things to not fetch libraries from a server, and instead build them locally.
GPL does not require binaries to be provided, nor even a project to build for a thirdparty - it only requires that all source be provided to those who have received binaries built from it. This we have done. I'm sorry I cannot be any more help on this topic.
--
And Paul's comment on them:
I understand that they wanted to speed-up the Engine building time, but it certainly seems a bit disingenuous to have them linked in a build script that downloads a generically named zip file, behind a now-non-public password-walled-off server, where we now can not even inspect those binaries to ensure that when we build these libraries for ourselves they match (as far as version or any library symbols used) so that we can produce the same exact binary that was distributed. I mean we don't even have a simple file names list of the contents of those archives.

I encourage tperry and Paul to continue working with the engine prebuild scripts. For anyone else with the skills and desire:

Used to build the prebuilt libraries for mac,linux,android,ios and emscripten.
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/bl ... braries.sh
Used to build the prebuilt libraries for windows.
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/bl ... d-libs.bat
----

I am probably mental, but . . .

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/tr ... p/prebuilt

https://github.com/livecode/livecode-prebuilt

Edit footnote: we now have what we need, as of 8/4/2024... now, hold my beer...

Compile success for the engine on Windows (Visual Studio 2017): Took ages to compile: End result frankly does not look any different (and neither should it) Baby-steps at the moment. This version of the engine build does exactly what the Linux version does, takes the engine up to 9.7 (using the tweaked livecode github source and corrected gyp build scripts) - and removes any requirement for the initial registration screen. This will be included in v1.04 of OXT Lite when that is released.

The mac version is pending, but I need a lie down in a darkened room first as my head is melting.
How was this possible? Thanks to a very generous contribution of all the prebuilts, from someone who will remain anonymous - but I cannot thank you enough. I suspect you may read this, so I want to pass on our sincere thanks from everyone here.

FourthWorld wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:36 pm

xAction wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:40 am Youtube.
You know that place where Livecode maxed out at 613K views on an 14 year old video.
Down to 10K views for a 2 year old video.
Down to 382 views a month ago.

The person I spoke to got 22K views in the last 24 hours. 220K views on a video a month ago.

I'm familiar with YouTube. There are many creator accounts there. I was asking which one is where we can see the video that talks about LC and OXT.

Hasn't happened yet. He was busy last week at Game Developers Conference. When/if it happens I'll be sure to say "It Happened!" and post a link. Fingers crossed.

I'm pretty sure I didn't write that last paragraph.

Maybe someone meant to use Quote but tapped Edit instead?

@tperry2x BRAVO a long time coming...

@Fourthworld yeah that weirdness happens around here. One of these days we'll figure out exactly how.

Actually, forget all that with the Windows engine. It was too good to last.