OXT Lite .9 Release

[tperry2x]

In fact, I can confirm that it adheres to the system theme completely:

Screenshot at 2023-09-03 15-48-28.png (182.2 KiB) Viewed 5705 times

[tperry2x]

I also notice that Livecode 9.6.3 community on Linux is plagued by inexplicable pauses and slowdowns when choosing anything from the "File" > "New Stack..." menus for example.
This OXT Lite 0.9 'hack' does away with those pauses, and it feels quick and responsive.
(I'm testing this on Debian 12, MX-Linux 23, Mate Desktop in case anyone wonders).

[tperry2x]

Alternative splash for OpenXTalk 0.9 lite:

Screenshot at 2023-09-03 18-42-12.png (73.05 KiB) Viewed 5694 times

splashfiles.zip

(49.19 KiB) Downloaded 249 times

revSplash.livecode stack goes in:
[LINUX]: /opt/livecode/livecodecommunity-9.6.3-rc-3.x86_64/Toolset/palettes/splash/
[MAC]: right-click .app > "show package contents" /Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/splash/

splash.png image used for background goes in:
[LINUX]: /opt/livecode/livecodecommunity-9.6.3-rc-3.x86_64/Toolset/resources/community/ideSkin/
[MAC]: right-click .app > "show package contents" /Contents/Tools/Toolset/resources/community/ideSkin/

(both of these files are found in the zip archive above)

Sorry, I haven't bothered working on the Windows version yet due to the fact that using windows makes me feel unwell. I will get around to replacing these in a windows version, unless someone beats me to it first.

[richmond62]

using windows makes me feel unwell

I haven't laughed such a lot for ages.

[tperry2x]

I will of course bundle all these changes into an easily-downloadable list of files, however I have a few more bits for anyone hacking together their own version of OpenXTalk Lite:
In a move away from the Livecode green, over to the OpenXTalk purple...

Please download the amended revtools.livecodescript file

revtools.livecodescript.zip

(9.47 KiB) Downloaded 258 times

[LINUX:] Place in: /opt/livecode/livecodecommunity-9.6.3-rc-3.x86_64/Toolset/palettes/tools/
[MAC:] Place in: (right-click app icon, "show package contents" > Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/tools/

This will change the tool hilights behind each tool to purple, and when you drag a control into a card, the green hilite that covers the card now changes to purple, thus:

Screenshot 2.jpg (35.54 KiB) Viewed 5667 times

I've commented with (tperry) in the file, so you know what I've changed. Hopefully that helps

[OpenXTalkPaul]

I also notice that Livecode 9.6.3 community on Linux is plagued by inexplicable pauses and slowdowns when choosing anything from the "File" > "New Stack..." menus for example.
This OXT Lite 0.9 'hack' does away with those pauses, and it feels quick and responsive.
(I'm testing this on Debian 12, MX-Linux 23, Mate Desktop in case anyone wonders).

Excellent! Please do let me know about any fixes you make on Linux. I realize that the previous build is a bit wonky, and might just put the .AppImage idea on the back burner and try to do a regular package format (like .deb). When put into an AppImage the IDE itself is read only, which has some advantages and some disadvantages.

I wonder how much my problems with OXT on Linuxes may be related to having containerized the thing inside an .AppImage. I know there's more that can be done in the AppImage set up, like adding directories to its global $PATH variables. I think that's what needs to happen for some things (like loading the FluidSynth libraries) to work properly.
I need to get back to testing on Linux and Windows more, I just find editing things easier for me on macOS and I require macOS for work unrelated to OXT.

I'm fairly certain now that also causing some general IDE wonkiness are some problems with windows that are not 100% opaque. I believe this was the cause of what you guys referred to as focus issues (or text highlighting issue) in the message box. So I needed to undo those minor (I thought) changes (which were purely for a certain look I was trying to emulate) on Windows and it cleared up the issues there. I won't be making any IDE widows transparent again.

[micmac]

I will of course bundle all these changes into an easily-downloadable list of files, ...

Are there any reason why you do not distribute a finished package?

Why do we all have to follow a list where many things can go wrong.

Mic

[tperry2x]

Are there any reason why you do not distribute a finished package?
Why do we all have to follow a list where many things can go wrong.
Mic

No problem. I can produce a finished article...when I finish, which may be some time...
I was trying to document this as I do it for a couple of reasons:

1. So multiple people aren't working on the same thing
2. So OpenXTalkPaul is aware of what I'm doing, and he can change his files in the OXT RC4 version
3. Just to make sure that everyone is happy with my edits, rather than me carrying on and then find that everyone asks me to revert everything.
4. To be more responsive with changes, rather than it seeming like I'm doing nothing while you wait for a release with all these cumulative updates bundled into one file.
5. Because downloading the entire OXT Lite Mac and Linux versions are over 1GB, whereas downloading these edits are a few kb

(Yes, I'm totally aware I've pretty much described github above, but I can't make head-nor-tail of it).
It's probably better then if I just send screenshots of what I've changed, then that takes care of points 1-4 above.

So, with that in mind - I've also just modded the colour when you hover over buttons on the inspector palette, and when they are clicked. Gone is the Livecode green, replaced with the OXT purple:

screenshot.png (90.16 KiB) Viewed 5654 times

[tperry2x]

I immediately notice the Application name, in the menu is still shown as Livecode. Also, the icon is still the green Livecode icon...

I have now fixed these two issues I previously identified above.
TerryL, can you tell me what file you edit to modify the 'About' dialog?

[micmac]

Gone is the Livecode green, replaced with the OXT purple:

Can it be made a preference?

Mic

[tperry2x]

Can it be made a preference?
Mic

That would be great, but where you change it currently requires manual editing of files and then a restart of OpenXTalk. Would be great if it was a preference, but this is beyond my scope or ability it would seem.

My initial aim is just to get rid of all Livecode branding and colours first, then add improvements and unique features at a later date.

Here are current download links for both Linux and MacOS X versions of OpenXTalk 0.9 Lite, so you don't need to swap any files around manually:
Mac: https://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/openxtal ... 0.9-osx.7z
Linux: https://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/openxtal ... 9-linux.7z

Known issues: Please be aware that on Linux, this will overwrite any existing Livecode install you have in /opt
On the mac version, it still can't handle .oxtstack files and is still associated with the .livecode extension.

Also, on the mac version: there seems to be no way to turn off the autoupdater, so either delete or zip the file in /Applications/OpenXTalk Lite 0.9.app/Contents/MacOS/autoupdater

[micmac]

Thank yo for the package, Terry.

Skærmbillede 2023-09-05 kl. 11.13.21.jpg (134.54 KiB) Viewed 5615 times

Im sure you know this at startup?

Mic

[richmond62]

Well, that greeeeeeen 'scream' is NOT what's wanted: BUT it is dead easy [I know,because I only do things that are easy] to swap in a new startup splash in the 'themes' folder.

Of course someone is revealing their Viking origins:"Skærmbillede" ... Yo!

Good on you! My people came over to Scotland via Zetland (err, Shetland) in about 1300.

[tperry2x]

Thank yo for the package, Terry.
Im sure you know this at startup?
Mic

Hi Mic. Did you also replace the splash.png where it was supposed to go?
splash.png image used for background goes in:
[LINUX]: /opt/livecode/livecodecommunity-9.6.3-rc-3.x86_64/Toolset/resources/community/ideSkin/
[MAC]: right-click .app > "show package contents" /Contents/Tools/Toolset/resources/community/ideSkin/

It definitely shouldn't be the green LC splash.png any more as I replaced this.

If in doubt, I have uploaded my OpenXTalk Lite 0.9 that I'd been tinkering with, which you can download afresh.
No login or anything required.
viewtopic.php?p=3346#p3346

[micmac]

Hi Terry

Its from your own Mac package.

Mic

[tperry2x]

Hi Terry
Its from your own Mac package.
Mic

Terry or tperry?
I'll double check the file I uploaded, but pretty sure it has the new splash.... edit: yes, can confirm the one I uploaded has the new splash.

I wonder - are you using high-dpi settings on the mac? - such as a large resolution screen?
Not me being nosy: I just spotted a file "splash@extra-high.png" in the mac version, so I wonder if this gets loaded instead if you have a higher-resolution setting turned on in the mac version?

I have replaced the extra-high version that I hadn't realised the mac might load.
You can either replace the file in:

Screenshot.png (8.52 KiB) Viewed 5600 times

with:

splash_extra-high.png.zip

(141.94 KiB) Downloaded 475 times

or, download my ~300mb ish 7zip file again as I've just updated it with this change. Hopefully that sorts the splash screen issue. Thanks for testing!

[micmac]

You were right tPerry

It worked

Mic

[TerryL]

This is very good, I like it all. I appreciate the time and effort, thank you. I'll aim for a .91 release in mid-October, crafting instructions for both someone hacking a clean copy of LCC 9.6.3 and others updating from .90 to .91.

I suggest focusing on file swaps to get basics working (which carry lower liability risk), and when everyone is happy release a 1.0 as an IDE hack or maybe a self-contained program with re-compiled Engine for all three platforms.

o LiveCode copyright info at bottom of Help > About. Needed to add stack "revAboutCardBehavior". I Already fixed.
o Limit version numbering to "About.txt", "Release Notes.pdf", and stack "revMenu". This will simplify updating.
o LC tiny logo and "LiveCode" still appearing in Menu. I thought the LC tiny logo was from the Engine. If we can change it please tell me how. My Windows menu displays "OpenXTalk Lite .9". I made a third try at revMenu and I'm stumped. It might have to do with the way Mac menus are created? A specific file only in Mac appbundle?

o No .oxt extension. Coding ".oxt" into File > Open, Save, Save As..., and in Preferences as the default extension is quite a project. If there's no required license or submitting a request somewhere then I'll work on it. Is there any objection keeping .livecode to maintain compatibility?

o Dictionary database still has a few mentions of "LiveCode". Paul gave me permission to use his debranded "api.sqlite" dictionary database. I noticed those too. I think it's better to use one database, and Paul knows how to edit it, so if he could do that, I'll include the updated version. In removing "LiveCode", two of the sqLite table names were changed, which might break other dictionaries like Bernd's "Tiny Dictionary".

o Dictionary still has "Livecode Script" and "LiveCode Builder". The dictionary is a stack with a browser widget that uses a behavior stack and html/java script to create most of the objects. I'd take it on, but it's inscrutable. I haven't found the html file source. And I don't think Linux can use it, which is why I included my "Quick Dictionary" plugin. It isn't perfect either, disentangling nested arrays is complex.

o No way to turn off Edit > Preferences > Updates. While editing Preferences I unchecked all the update options and set the backdrop on/white. Preference changes take effect on the next program start, so the second opening of Lite should have no auto-updating and white backdrop. All the Preference cards are still there, just the Nav list was shortened. In msg box: set the style of the mouseStack to toplevel, position mouse in Preferences, press returnKey. In msg box: go to cd 13 (or cd "Update"). If some auto-updating options are still checked, then I'll have to figure a way to uncheck, maybe with the msg box.

o Blue LC icon in answer/ask dialogs. How is that possible? Windows works as expected. There's elaborate code to position the warning, info, and question icons. Suggestions? I found this in Dictionary for Answer: "On OS X systems, the image specified in the gRevAppIcon variable appears as the application icon in the answer dialog box (unless the answer...as sheet form is used). If you specify an iconType, the image specified in the gRevSmallAppIcon variable is used instead, along with the special icon specified by the iconType." So fixed when application icon is changed?

o Green LC banner in File > Standalone Settings. Thanks, I forgot about that. I'll look at it.
o Improved startup splash screen. I like it and added.
o OXT Lite icons. I like both.
o Hide Tutorial button on Toolbar, incorporate into a sample stack. Tutorials now go to the stacks in Examples folder. Sample Stacks goes to revOnline, and Lessons goes to LiveCode.com lessons. Is everyone OK with that?
o Purple Tools, make a preference. Both possible, hope color is not too dark.

All suggestions welcomed. They may not all be incorporated, but no idea dismissed. I'll work on these for a few days. Wow, thank you again. Terry

[tperry2x]

This is very good, I like it all.

Thank you!

I'll aim for a .91 release in mid-October, crafting instructions for both someone hacking a clean copy of LCC 9.6.3 and others updating from .90 to .91.

I suggest focusing on file swaps to get basics working (which carry lower liability risk)

Absolutely, and I'm keeping a record of what I'm doing, just to make everyone's life easier following this (or recreating the changes)

o LiveCode copyright info at bottom of Help > About. Needed to add stack "revAboutCardBehavior". I Already fixed.
o Limit version numbering to "About.txt", "Release Notes.pdf", and stack "revMenu". This will simplify updating.
o LC tiny logo and "LiveCode" still appearing in Menu....If we can change it please tell me how.

Will work on the above

o No .oxt extension. Coding ".oxt" into File > Open, Save, Save As..., and in Preferences as the default extension is quite a project. If there's no required license or submitting a request somewhere then I'll work on it. Is there any objection keeping .livecode to maintain compatibility?

I'm not sure how, but Paul managed it and the RC4 version of OpenXTalk uses a .oxtstack extension and recognises those files (at least on Mac). Can you tell us what to change here Paul.

o Dictionary database still has a few mentions of "LiveCode". Paul gave me permission to use his debranded "api.sqlite" dictionary database. I noticed those too. I think it's better to use one database, and Paul knows how to edit it, so if he could do that, I'll include the updated version.

Thanks TerryL, that would be great. Glad that particular bug-bear of mine is being worked on

o Dictionary still has "Livecode Script" and "LiveCode Builder". The dictionary is a stack with a browser widget that uses a behavior stack and html/java script to create most of the objects. I'd take it on, but it's inscrutable...

I know what you mean. Got to give credit where it's due here to LC . The way the dictionary is assembled and built on-the-fly is a monumental feat of coding. I'm amazed it works at all. I do wonder if it couldn't be simpler in the way it's coded and loaded.

o No way to turn off Edit > Preferences > Updates.

Okay, that explains it. It still launches the updater app on the Mac, so the easiest way I found was to delete or zip the binary in the mac standalone.

o Blue LC icon in answer/ask dialogs. How is that possible? Windows works as expected. There's elaborate code to position the warning, info, and question icons. Suggestions?... fixed when application icon is changed?

Not sure, I'll try and track that one down.

o Green LC banner in File > Standalone Settings. Thanks, I forgot about that. I'll look at it.

Done, by editing revstandalonesettingsgeneralbehavior.livecodescript
Will post my updated version on my site, replacing the old 7z file before Monday.

o Improved startup splash screen. I like it and added.
o OXT Lite icons. I like both.

Cool, thanks.

o Hide Tutorial button on Toolbar, incorporate into a sample stack. Tutorials now go to the stacks in Examples folder. Sample Stacks goes to revOnline, and Lessons goes to LiveCode.com lessons. Is everyone OK with that?

Sounds good to me. Everyone else?

o Purple Tools, make a preference. Both possible, hope color is not too dark.

That would be great if possible. I'm finding editing the preferences a pain.

All suggestions welcomed. They may not all be incorporated, but no idea dismissed. I'll work on these for a few days. Wow, thank you again. Terry

[tperry2x]

Latest progress shot (working on the computer downstairs, not my normal one). Testing in xubuntu on this computer.
Progress is coming along.
Richmond, I've restored the colourful toolbar buttons from old version of Livecode & please note - alert about closing source on standalone is gone. Revised the linux install bash script I'm working on...

progress 06-09-2023.png (267.75 KiB) Viewed 5535 times

Screenshot-mac.png (1.39 MiB) Viewed 5501 times

For anyone following along with the changes, or looking to make their own edits, I've also included a changes folder (like my own mini-github, to track changes... without the complexity).
https://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/openxtalk/changes.php

edit: I know I said I'd have these online by monday - I lied. They are online now
Please just use the download links here as the filenames stay the same.
viewtopic.php?p=3346#p3346